Found Another

"190e30-Now with COSWORTH" (190e30) 10/13/2013 at 18:17 • Filed to: None

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{TL;DR-Need help deciding between future cars} So by this point, some of you may have noticed I spend a pretty good amount of my time surfing Ebay and Craigslist, sometimes just to dream while other times with an actual purpose. A good amount of this time searching for a purpose is spent looking at what's next. I absolutely love my Audi and am in no rush to sell it, but I've become comfortable with the fact that if someone was interested in it and approached me with a good offer, I'd definitely sell it. As a result of that, I've gotta be prepared (once my dad did that, sold a car suddenly and with no fallback. He needed something to take to work, so what did he get to follow up his 2005 E55? A 2005 E430 sport. Talk about a bland transfer.).

Typically, I'll decide on something one day, and the next day I'll change my mind. But this time, I think I've got my mind made up. Although I kind of don't, because I have two options and don't know what to do with either. So here it goes (As a disclaimer, I have whatever I get from the Audi to spend. So if I'm really optimistic, $9k. Just to make this a bit more difficult, let's pretend I have $7500):

2003 Ford Focus SVT

Naturally Aspirated, high-revving 4 cylinder, with apparently great handling. Block by Cosworth, suspension and brakes by SVT. Interior by Ford, so...yeah. All were stick, which is ideal. They're pretty durable as well, from what I've heard/seen. For $7500, you could easily find one with less than 50k on the clock. It's a hot hatch, so its fun while also having space for things. Back seats, so people can go places. Parts are American, so cheap enough that I'd be comfortable with DDing it during the week and autocrossing it on the weekends. Plus, let's be honest, it just looks like fun.

And now, the competitor (a completely different animal;

2006 Mercedes C230 Sport Sedan

Yeah, it looks like a grandma's car. That's because it is. But the more I think about it, the more right it sounds. Powered by a less-than-the-Focus-but-pretty high-revving 2.5 Liter V6 (Yes, I'm aware that previous years had a Supercharged I4, but they make almost the same numbers, the earlier models having a hair more torque. I'd much rather have the reliability of an NA, even if it means less burnouts). They were one of the few modern Mercs available with a good old MANUAL TRANSMISSION, yeah baby, and are RWD. It's got 4 doors and plenty of seating, for people. Comfortable, somewhat reliable, and $7500 can buy you one with around 85-90k miles. The suspension's supposed to be very stiff, so yay for autocross. Plus, its a modern Mercedes, so as long as I do regular maintenance myself and source parts, it shouldn't be tooo bad to maintain. But here's the part that's drawing me in;

It's a light(er) weight, short wheelbase RWD, naturally aspirated car with low displacement and a pretty low power figure. It's manual, with a 7.5 second 0-60 time, and a suspension firm enough that old people were complaining about it the day after it rolled out of the factory. And after all of this, it's got back seats. I know it might be a little anti-Oppo to relate it to the Toyobaru, but...I can sense a very dim connection. Dim enough that if it were a light at the end of a tunnel, you still wouldn't be able to see it, but its still there.

So what do you guys think? I think the Mercedes would make a better DD, plus it would probably be more fun to autocross (the SVT would probably be faster, but the RWD has to be more fun). But the SVT would probably be a lot more fun while on the street itself. I could also probably get a much cleaner SVT than a Mercedes at that price. The SVT is sportier looking IMO, but I've already though about mods and came to the conclusion that if I got the Merc, I'd have to put on W210 E55 wheels immediately, because how awesome would that look if they fit. Also, a High School student rolling up in a Mercedes does make me look like a massive tool, I realize that, but at the same time, a High School student rolling up in an SVT Focus with a missing resonator makes me look like a hoodlum. So I guess I'm pretty much fine with sacrificing my image for some fun behind the wheel.

Oh my god, that ended up being much larger than anticipated. I apologize for the wall of text before you.

Dunnik > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 18:23

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I'd say...neither. Keep looking.

The pre-2004 Focus has lots of issues, from what I read when I was shopping around for a used car.

As for the Merc, it's a product of the days when MB's vaunted reputation for quality took a severe and well-deserved beating.

Your boy, BJR > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 18:24

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SVT. I was all set to buy one a few years back but I got an Aurora instead. I've been kicking myself ever since and also seriously fuck all Auroras in the world.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 18:24

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In that price range, I have to recommend an EP3 Si or a base RSX. Either can be found in good condition for $7500 and offer a full tuning market just ripe for auto cross building.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 10/13/2013 at 18:26

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My parents don't want me in a small Japanese car. My dad had an 06 STI hatchback once, and was mystified by how tinny the doors were. Since then they've been banned.

:(

Believe me, the Ep3 holds a special place in my heart.

GoliathRex > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 18:26

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The SVT- all day long.

Better looking

Probably more engaging to drive

Better on gas

More reliable and cheaper parts

Hatchback

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > Your boy, BJR 10/13/2013 at 18:27

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I've actually heard they're pretty decent handling, for what they are

SonorousSpeedJoe > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 18:33

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An '06 hatchback? Do you mean a current-gen STi hatch or previous-gen WRX wagon?

I can see how the previous-gen WRX's doors would seem tinny - they were frameless, I believe.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > SonorousSpeedJoe 10/13/2013 at 18:36

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Whoops, '08. My bad.

Yeah. I came reaaaally close to convincing them to let me get a newer Legacy GT wagon since they gave them really good safety reviews, but they decided it was too fast upon seeing the 0-60 was like 5.5 or something ridiculous.

SonorousSpeedJoe > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 18:45

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Between these two, I'd pick the Focus due to the Benz's likely unreliability and higher cost of ownership (insurance, fuel, maintenance, price, etc.).

Given how the Camry/Accord and Corolla/Civic are ballyhooed as cheap, safe, and economical cars for young drivers, it blows my mind that your parents would arbitrarily dismiss them and all other Japanese cars as unsafe from one experience. Further limiting your choices to something with 6+ second 0-60 times makes it harder to find a decently sporty car that doesn't have a deathtrap stigma.

My first alternative would be a Chevrolet Cobalt SS, but that might be too fast. I'd also recommend a V6 Mustang from between the New Edge and '05-'09 years, but your parents are probably going to dismiss it as too fast due to its image regardless of how it looks on paper. I'm drawing a blank otherwise.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > SonorousSpeedJoe 10/13/2013 at 18:48

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They're pretty sensible for the most part. There's some heavy restrictions, but I'm ok with it. It sort of gives me a challenge.

Do the '05 and '06 V6 'Stang have anything to them at all? I can't see them having good handling, and I could picture the V6 not being enough to handle the weight.

Ktish > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 18:52

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Still want to see you in a miata.PROS:

1. cheap.

2.manual

3. droptop

4.cheap

5. good on gas

6.(your price range, probably) Flip up headlights.

Just gotta convince Andy.

EDIT: Read the last few lines, nobody will know what the hell an SVT focus is, even with straightpipes. Not a concern. But a miata on the other hand...

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > Ktish 10/13/2013 at 18:58

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He would never let me get a convertible. Ever.

SonorousSpeedJoe > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 19:00

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Well, they're manual and RWD, and the '05-'06 'Stangs should have around 210 HP.

It's just that, based off of what you've said, I was under the impression that you're stuck in a "take what you can get" scenario since it can't be too fast and can't be Japanese. That leaves you with cars that have good handling dynamics... but lots of those are smaller cars that aren't as safe, i.e. the Miata and MINI Cooper.

That's why I suggested the Mustang - it has some power to it, but also some heft to it that leaves potential that the aftermarket could help you tap into. There must be some decent suspension bits that help it turn, and you wouldn't be the first person to bolt on an intake and exhaust to get some more power out of it. But I don't know if your parents would dismiss the Mustang based on it looking too fast and/or put their foot down on modding whatever you end up getting.

Ktish > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 19:01

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Add a functional roll bar and you're golden, pony boy.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > Ktish 10/13/2013 at 19:17

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Its the rigidity

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > SonorousSpeedJoe 10/13/2013 at 19:19

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I gotcha. I just looked them up, it seems like they're a bit out of my price range as of now. That being said, I'll definitely have to keep my eye out for them as they gain a bit of mileage. Thanks!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 19:27

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That's unfortunate :( but by that point, Honda had already implemented their famous "crumple zones". Not all Japanese cars are made the same.

Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 20:23

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Hi! As the owner of an SVT Focus, I'd like to weigh in. If you find one that hasn't been thrashed and has been taken care of, you can't really do better for your budget. It's the best all-rounder of the two bar none. You might want the Merc for RWD, but believe me when I say the SVT's suspension is set up so well that there's literally no understeer at all (I have yet to make the front properly slide), and the only thing you get is the back kicking out in a nice controlled four-wheel drift. The handling is absurdly planted for a car that cost $18k new, and you will be genuinely shocked at how well the car can handle (it weighs 2800 lbs, so it's incredibly light and nimble). Plus as you mentioned, it's a hatch, so it's incredibly practical once you put the seats down. I moved half of my college dorm room stuff in my SVTF, and have fit a complete set of tires and rims, a floor jack, and a 3x6ft toolchest in the back no problem. You can get 25mpg straight city driving if you're careful, and insurance isn't too bad. I highly, highly recommend driving the Focus, you'll see what I mean. The SVTF will make you smile and laugh like a madman under spirited driving, and even in everyday conditions the perfectly weighted and precise steering and fantastic six-speed make regular driving a joy. It's an autocross car that you can drive everyday, and is fun every single second you're behind the wheel.

A word of advice about parts though: recently I've been finding that OEM SVT parts, which are expensive to begin with, are becoming more and more rare. Generally SVT parts run about 40% more expensive than the regular Focus, so if you do end up with the SVTF go on the forums and find online vendors who sell them for much cheaper. The two I use are Tousley Ford, an SVT specialty shop in Minnesota, and Central Florida Motorsports, one of the leading Ford aftermarket parts suppliers. With your budget you shouldn't really have to worry about reliability just yet, but keep that in mind.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 20:33

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Can you wrench on your cars? Are you willing/able to pay for labor?

The SVT is a great car. I love mine; 2002 number 85 ever made. However, it is not a drive and ignore it car. The timing assembly MUST be replaced every 8ok or 5 years.

Parts are still easy enough to find, if you know where to look. However, body panels and trim pieces and some of the more unique bits are discontinued and are only available used. However, if you cannot wrench on it yourself, you are going to have to pay for labor frequently. The timing assembly is about $200 in parts, and another $200 in labor from a cheaper shop. Dealers will want $800 easily.

The handling is simply sublime. Really. It's one of the best handling FWD cars of the last decade. It will easily embarrass much more expensive hardware in the twisty-bits. The SVT is not a drag-racing car. It's fairly terrible off the line, due to the tall gearing. Pedal placement is ideal for heel-toe action.

Check out www.focaljet.com for a wealth of info and the internet's premier Focus Enthusiast community. You can also ask me anything you'd like about my car.

ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 20:56

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GO FOR THE SVT FOCUS!!

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him 10/13/2013 at 21:24

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Well that was a ton of critical information. And really, I think that's what sways me in the end. Everyone here was saying the SVT, but I wasn't really sure until now. I had an SCCA-raced '02 Neon ACR before that, and I know the exact cornering feeling you're talking about. I loved that car, but the roll cage was a head hazard, insurance was rough, and my parents were afraid the near-straight exhaust and red paint would get me pulled over. The fact that the SVT is a chance to have that all rolled together again in a nicer-looking, more comfortable, more safe, faster, more sensible package is enough to make it obvious to me.

Gracias senor.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 10/13/2013 at 21:28

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I wrench a bit, (I'm still learning) but my dad knows how to do most things and is teaching me, and what I don't know from him now I'll be learning in Know Your Car class in school.

I could honestly care less about straight line power. When I'm merging on the highway, I don't even care that my Audi does 0-60 in 8 seconds, the noise it makes is good enough to put a smile on my face regardless. The SVT (from what I've heard) makes just as good a noise, so I wouldn't have an issue with that part. What I really love is that feeling of tear-your-face-off grip, or when you're on the road, that feeling of blasting down a twisty road at 10 over, and feeling the car pitch and roll through the corners.

Needless to say, it sounds like the SVT is fit for me.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 21:52

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The SVT has more then enough power to merge onto the highway, you just have to be in the right gear. You can pass once you're at speed in 6th just fine, but an onramp calls for 3rd or 4th; 2nd if you really want to get to speed- 2nd will hit nearly 60 mph.

With a good set of 3-season tires you'll chicken out before the car does in the corners. You'll probably want some winter wheels and tires as well. You have to get at least 16" wheels in a 4x108 bolt pattern. If you can find them SVT Contour wheels work very well. I've got a set with Goodyear Eagle RSAs on them and they handle the winters we get in Dayton, Ohio just fine. If you get more snow you may want actual snow tires.

The stock SVT springs and dampers are very good for spirited driving, but they aren't the best for frequent Auto-X action. Upgrading to Koni yellows/adjustables with a set of slight lowering springs will make a big difference. The stock brakes are very good as well.

For the exhaust, you'll want to check out FSWerks and their Stealth system. Dual resonators, and with a cat it's quiet, but with a nice tone when you wind the engine up.

Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 21:57

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You're welcome, glad I could help! Word from the wise, though, if you do end up selling your Audi and picking up an SVTF, make sure you give it a good once-over before buying. I bought mine for $5500 with 95k miles on the clock without taking it to a mechanic, and have since had to put about $1000 in regular maintenance over the two years since I bought it (nothing catastrophic, just little things here and there, same as you would find with every performance car). With your budget you shouldn't have such problems, I imagine, just be aware there's a possibility. Also keep in mind about 14,000 SVT Focii were made, so you're not exactly spoiled for choice, but do be a discerning buyer, don't buy the first SVTF you see because it's the only one you can find. I spent about 8 months looking for my car, but those 8 months of searching were so worth it.

It's honestly the perfect enthusiast car for a high school kid, it's enough performance that'd you never want for more, but is safe, practical, and economical enough that you're parents will be fine with it. Good luck man, if you do pick one up, make a post about it so we SVT owners can fawn over it, I know there's a few of us on here :)

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 10/13/2013 at 21:57

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All of that stuff sounds pretty much ideal, thanks a lot for the info.

In Connecticut, most of our highway merges are 0-60 runs, because the idiots behind the building of the Merritt made all of our entrance ramps about 100ft long following a stop sign. But if I could do it in the Neon and the Audi, I'm not worried about the Focus.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him 10/13/2013 at 21:59

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Steve moved to Tasca Ford. I would try them before Tousley now.

What's your build number? I've got 2002 SVT number 85 in Sonic Blue.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him 10/13/2013 at 22:00

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Sounds good. I've started searching, but not really with a purpose yet, and haven't seen too many nice ones. That being said I'll keep my eye out.

Will do, and thanks!

Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 10/13/2013 at 22:10

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Wow, you have an early one. As embarrassing as this is with all my previous posts lauding my SVTF, I don't have an SVT certificate for it :( The first owner of the car must've kept it when the guy I bought it from purchased it from him. It's a 2003 in Infra-Red with the Cold-Weather Package and the Audiophile Package. I was going to go on Ford's website and get a copy printed off, but I keep forgetting to. I have the original bill of sale and window sticker and booklets and order sheet and everything, just no SVT certificate. And thanks for the heads-up about Steve, I actually just placed an order from Tousley Ford a few weeks ago and he was still there. I just Googled Tasca Ford really quick, and a forum post came up where you get 5% off an online order at Tasca using the discount code "FocalJet", just a heads-up!

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 22:17

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Yup. The SVT is a truly great car. $7500 is actually quite high for one, even with low miles. Low miles usually means it needs the timing assembly done.

Also, in 2003-2004 you could spec an SVT with the excellent European Appearance Package, which got you every option including HID lights, and EAP specific multi-spoke wheels and black leather interior and the highly sought after Recaro front seats. In 2003, you could only get the EAP with the Competition Orange or Screaming Yellow paint colors. 2003 also saw the introduction of the 5-door SVT variant. In 2004 you could spec an SVT with the EAP in any color and with 3 or 5 doors. The regular SVT also got new 6-spoke wheels in 2004.

The HID lights are very hard to find, and outrageously expensive from Ford ($999 for the set).

The Orange and Yellow are the hardest to find colors, with the 5-door EAP cars being even more rare.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him 10/13/2013 at 22:24

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No SVT certificate for me either. Bought mine used, and Ford wants $40 for one now.

Steve moved there only a couple weeks ago, so it must have been just before he did so. Are you on FocalJet? You should join, it's the world's best Focus enthusiast community. There is seriously no better place to talk with fellow SVT owners or find info about our cars.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 10/13/2013 at 22:26

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There was an Orange EAP for sale on my local craigslist a few months back. It was so nice looking, and was only $5000 but had 98k miles, which is kind of getting up there. I still considered it for a few days, that's how nice it looked. Never would I have expected ricey bolt-on mudflaps to look so good on a car. (Not the car that was for sale, but its an Orange EAP with flapz).

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > 190e30-Now with COSWORTH 10/13/2013 at 22:35

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Don't worry too much about the miles, there are several people running with 120k plus on the clock no problems. Just check to make sure the timing assembly has been done on a regular basis. If you keep up with the regular maintenance, it will last and run as well as any other car.

I've got 99k on mine. I just had to have a clutch put in for the first time; bought it with 42k on the clock. The clutch is the biggest expense I've had for my car since I bought it in 2006. Never had any big issues.

Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 10/13/2013 at 22:39

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I am on FocalJet too! I'm also on FocusFanatics and SVT Performance, so I keep busy in the Focus community haha. I like FocalJet the best as you mentioned, I've had to sort out a few issues with my Focus and they've been nothing but awesome. FocalJet was also where I originally found out about Steve and the operation he runs, too, so that's been a big help. SVT Performance is also great, especially with with sourcing parts since they specialize in SVT cars exclusively. If you haven't already you should definitely set up an account there, they've really helpful with other stuff as well.